Oppo, teach me about...loans?

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390) 07/01/2014 at 00:31 • Filed to: Finance

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In preparation for the 944 purchase, I've been learning more about loans, but there are still things I don't understand, so I'm asking for some help.

Now with the 944, I have to take out a $3000 loan for it. That's not a problem because I can easily afford it. The problem is that I grew up not knowing that having established credit is needed to actually get a loan.(-_-)

Now the solution to that is obviously getting someone to co-sign; enter my dad who seems to be for me getting the car, which is good! Here I am thinking this is gonna be simple and all will be fine. But remember how I mentioned my mom wanted to get a Volvo XC60 T6(aka $45k car)? He then comes back to tell me he needs to check his credit score first; to which, I think to myself, "no big deal, go check that score and all will be fine!". And then he says he's not sure if he can take out two loans for two cars because my mother no credit??(I think he means not good credit). And I'm like, "Wait. WHAT??". So here I am, confused as to how this is possible, as I was not aware that you're credit score and income and other such things limited you to how many loans you could take out a year of something? Is this true?

I was/am thinking of possible solutions, and one of them was to try to put a big enough down-payment on the the $3k loan, say about $400, that way, I assumed it wouldn't be that big of a deal and maybe easier to get the loan? Or maybe I could ask another local relative to co-sign? I'm a bit lost, so please help me out Oppo? :(

EDIT: I Had a thought, wouldn't co-signing and paying of the loan be a start to establishing credit for myself?? That would be great right, as we've all got to start somewhere!

Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 00:40

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Co signing is probably the easiest way to do it quickly, I would do it if someone will help. Once its paid off you might be able to get a similar loan in the future. Credit is a strange catch 22, you can't get it without showing them, yet they don't want to give it to you. Best way to build credit is to buy things with a credit card and make regular payments. You just have to, its the way the world forces you to be.

ly2v8-Brian > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 00:41

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Granted I am no expert but having outstanding loans does effect rating (pretty sure), but it shouldn't prevent you from getting a loan, especially for so little. Why do you need a co-signer? Have you tried applying for a loan yourself? I qualified when I bought my truck a few years back, but my mom did co-sign to help me get a lower interest rate.

GeorgeyBoy > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 00:44

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Down payment on loan? No, you want the smallest principle because you will be paying interest on it, which if you can even get one will probably be a lot... You definitely will need a co-signer.

You probably don't want to hear this, but I would just wait till you have the cash. I mean it's not that much, you'd be saving $.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > ly2v8-Brian 07/01/2014 at 00:45

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I need a co-signer because I've got no pre-established credit whatsoever. I was told this was the only way, unless you know of a legal other.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > GeorgeyBoy 07/01/2014 at 00:46

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I understand where you're coming from, but this is one car I simply cannot wait for.

Jacques L' Autre > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 00:47

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Good luck finding a bank that will loan you money for a 20 yr old car, and not have a 20% interest rate. You'd be better off waiting until you had the cash in my opinion.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Jacques L' Autre 07/01/2014 at 00:51

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But I cannot wait. I'm not missing out on another 944 again. I've passed on more than 5 944s because of various reasons, and now the most mechanically sound one for the lowest price has come and I simply cannot allow this one to go. Can they give someone older a loan for such a car?

yamahog > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 00:51

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Look at credit unions, they're usually the best on rates and customer service, and see what the offers are like with and without a cosigner. Yes, paying off the loan will help build your credit history. If you can apply for a credit card and know you'll be smart about it, (paying off in full or leaving only a very small balance, never using more than 30-40% of your credit at a given time, etc) that will also help build credit in the meantime.

Also, unlikely, but if someone is having a REALLY sweet credit card deal, ie 0% on cash advances for 12months, and you know you could pay it down in under 12 months, you could even pay in cash and then just pay off the card.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > yamahog 07/01/2014 at 00:52

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Yeah. I went to Birmingham Credit Union(because I have an account there), and they said I needed a co-signer. Not sure where there are others in the area. :(

yamahog > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 00:52

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Have you asked Bank of Dad for some cash to be paid back in full?

ly2v8-Brian > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 00:53

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So I take it you own zero credit cards. One thing I suggest is that you try to get a credit card. I got one through the bank just after high school that has a $500 limit. Just buy stuff and pay it off. That is a simple way to build credit. Back to the task at hand. I really don't see why your father wouldn't be able to open that loan with you. BUT I am don't have the details of his finances NOR should I (that is private info after all). This isn't stuff I know a lot about so I should probably shut up.

Jacques L' Autre > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 00:55

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Yes, you can wait, but you don't want to. Big difference there. You are still way better off waiting until you have actual cash for one instead of getting a loan. If the "mechanically sound" 944 craps out on you, you're still on the hook for the rest of the payment. Most banks, or credit unions won't lend you money for a car if it's more than x years old, or over 100K miles. It sucks, but you're better off finding a summer job, or something else, and building your funds up for the next one that comes along.

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 00:55

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Here's what I would try (and in fact, did myself when I had no credit).

1. Find a credit union you can join. Could be through your employer, or just based on where you live. They're basically like nonprofit banks, owned by their depositors. Join it with an initial deposit.

2. Apply for a loan. Talk to someone when you open the account, and they should be able to give you advice on what to do, what they may be able to offer you, etc.

3. If at all possible, take out the loan without a co-signer; even if you pay a little more in interest, you'll be establishing your very own credit history, which is handy.

4. And this may be the most important, MAKE THE PAYMENTS ON TIME. In fact, if you can pay a little more than needed, or pay off the loan early, so much the better.

This my friends is how I bought the 1964 1/2 Mustang that I just Had To Have. :-)

If you have trouble finding a credit union, let me know what part of the country you're in and I'll help you find one.

(not mine, but pretty similar):

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > ly2v8-Brian 07/01/2014 at 00:55

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Well you know more than I do, and I appreciate the help you've given me; that's gotta count for something right? :P

yamahog > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 00:56

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There's one opening on Main St in Royal Oak shortly (usually means promotions), and one of their other branches gave crzrsn the best rate on his Mustang.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > yamahog 07/01/2014 at 00:56

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I haven't because I know it wouldn't work out if I tried. Co-signing appears to be the easiest way.

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 07/01/2014 at 00:57

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Unfortunate perhaps but true.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Jacques L' Autre 07/01/2014 at 01:00

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I've got two jobs right now, and I'll be damned for life if I ever find a 944 with less than 150k miles and a brand new clutch, timing belt, gaskets, and water pump with less than 5000 miles on those parts. There won't be another one like it as most of them are beat to hell and the owners that know that they've got a good one in their garage sell them for twice what they're actually worth. This one is actually priced fairly below the normal price. I'll be hella-sad if I have to wait longer than I already have.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > NotUnlessRoundIsFunny 07/01/2014 at 01:01

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If I can find a credit union like that then all my problems would be solved.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > yamahog 07/01/2014 at 01:02

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That's interesting. But would they allow me to do what I want given the fact that I've got no credit?? That's the main question here.

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 01:03

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I won't say that taking out a loan to buy an old Mustang was the smartest decision I ever made, but...we are on Oppo after all.

Jacques L' Autre > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 01:04

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If you've got two jobs already then you'll have no problem saving up $3K, and maybe the car will still be around when you have the funds available. It's really not worth the trouble that loan could get you in, not to mention that you'll probably end up paying a good bit more than what you'll borrow with interest. Good luck to you if you really feel that it's that important to acquire though, but chances are another opportunity will pop up in the future.

DipodomysDeserti > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 01:06

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Assuming you are 18, I would try to get a beginner credit card with a super low limit just to build up some credit first. Also try opening up an account at a local credit union. Once you get some good credit history, you should have no problem getting a $3k loan yourself.

A better option would be to just get some income, and buy the car cash. Use the credit card to buy gas every week and pay the balance off every month. I bought my first car cash for $4,500 when I was 16. Then when I was 18 I got a card with a $250 limit. I was able to buy a house at 22 years old in the middle of an economic collapse because my credit was so good (even after going to college). A few years later I was able to get approved for two car loans, one for a new car with 0% APR, and another on a CPO BMW with 1.9% APR and I'm only 26 years old.

Not to sound rude or shitty, but if your dad is worried about getting approved for two loans, one only being for $3k, it might not be the best time to have him co sign on a loan. That or he really wants you to buy the car cash on your own.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Jacques L' Autre 07/01/2014 at 01:07

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Thanks. Hopefully something good will come from this.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > NotUnlessRoundIsFunny 07/01/2014 at 01:08

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Yep, you can say that forever.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > DipodomysDeserti 07/01/2014 at 01:10

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It's not that he's worried, hell I don't even know. He's got that kinda monotone voice where you can't really tell what emotion he's conveying. He's like a serious Vulcan...

PheeNoIVI > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 01:13

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I have no credit yet either. So I'm in the same boat. Your beat bet, if they are planning on getting g another car as well is for another family member to help you out. If your family is willing. Its be the beat for everyone. Just pay it of quick. Outstanding loans does effect your credit.

DipodomysDeserti > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 01:14

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Damn. He probably just wants you to get it on your own, which is a good idea. When I was young my friends all told me my dad reminded them of Robert DeNiro. They were spot on. The only difference was DeNiro was acting.

Freddy "Tavarish" Hernandez > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 01:16

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Do yourself a favor and just buy the car outright. Use loans on assets, not liabilities.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > PheeNoIVI 07/01/2014 at 01:18

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That's what I'll do then. And I've got no problem paying off the loans so it's all good there.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > DipodomysDeserti 07/01/2014 at 01:18

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Then I will have to find a way on my own then.

Freddy "Tavarish" Hernandez > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 01:19

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Porsche 944s are a dime a dozen. I found a 944S for $800 and drove it home 3 hours and managed to fix it up for less than half of your budget. If it's a run of the mill 8-valve, save your money.

PheeNoIVI > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 01:20

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There you go then! Go get that Porsche!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Freddy "Tavarish" Hernandez 07/01/2014 at 01:22

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Yeah but you had to "fix it up". This one is ready to drive home, and for the next couple years. You cannot find a 944 for $800 where I am that hasn't spun a road bearing, has a blown motor, that isn't a POS, or simply won't run. You can find barn find 924s at that price and that's it. There has never been a better 944 local to me in the one year I've been search Craigslist and forums.

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/driving-a-944-…

BoulderZ > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 02:32

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This will be really long, but I won't say I'm sorry for that. It's important stuff, and the details matter, and I'm not even covering all of them. Okay, let's get the cranky part out of the way first, as others have mentioned: financing a 20 year old Porsche is not a good money move for several reasons. In fact, cars in general (as much as I love them) make no financial sense unless they're unavoidably necessary for work to generate income. However, I'd bet no one on here (including me) is in to cars for the accounting. We just plain like them for a host of reasons, some rational and some very much not. It's not always all about practicality or sensibility.

I'll also second what others have said: Get a credit card, use it, and pay it off in full every month (or at least very nearly fully pay nearly every time). Starter cards usually have very severe and expensive terms, but you won't need to care because you won't overspend and you'll pay it off every time, right... right? Then, after a couple of years, shop around and get a better card. Really, get a crash course in basic finance. Here's my favorite place for that, but I'll note they really don't have a good section on how lending works: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/mone…

So, now that we have that out of the way: loans. Loans are very simple. They are a gamble by the lender that you will pay back the money they loan you, plus a charge for your having it for some amount of time. That charge is "interest" because that's their interest in letting you use their money, i.e. the profit potential. It is a gamble, because for all that we do have courts and regulated markets and so forth, there is still a chance they won't get their money back. Everything after that is details. So, why is it complex? Well, as they say, the devil's in the details.

Here's where things get interesting. The lure of profit for the lender has to be weighed against several factors. First, could they be doing something else with that money that would earn them more for less effort and/or risk? That's what base rates are, more or less. Below some rate, they either don't make money, or they don't make enough for it to be worth their while. This is why a lot of lenders also charge more to do small loans, if they do them at all. The profit might be too small to be worth their issuing and administering the loan. Of course, they need to be earning something on their money. Just sitting on cash is a risk, as they would lose value to inflation. There is also some value to them as well in providing services like small loans to keep you as a customer for more profitable activities. Second, they need to know and control (or at least believe they do) the risk of not getting their money back.

The lender can either raise the rate to make the profit big enough to be worth the gamble, or they can attempt to reduce risk by a number of means. One is to secure the loan. That means that if you default (polite word for "screw up financially") on the loan then they get to keep whatever it is you bought, or maybe they can take your other stuff. If it's a first mortgage, and they get a house, they'll probably get at least a decent chunk of money out of a repo ("foreclose" is repo for houses and real property). If they repo a 20 year old 944 in need of work, they won't have much of value. If you don't have a lot of other stuff or money, then they don't have a lot of recourse. Remember: they're in the business of finance, they don't want to be realtors or auto dealers or run yard sales. So, this won't do much to help you get the loan and/or get a good rate.

The next is that they can try to lend only to borrowers who are low risk. This is the credit score part. Credit scores are an attempt to quantify "Is this dude/chick good for it?" in questions of money. Turns out they're not bad indicators of that on average , either. The problem is that those scores place a lot of weight on what you've done in the past. So, if you have no credit history, you are a completely unknown risk and your score is either low (bad) or doesn't exist (as bad, or worse). Business hates, hates, hates unknown risk because they can't price their bets accordingly. It's a financial blind-entry turn for them.

This is where co-signers come in. If the credit score can't answer, "Are they good for it?", they simply ask a known risk (person with a score), "Hey, is this dude/chick good for it? And if it turns out they aren't, are you willing to cover their, and our, ass for the whole deal?" This is why being a co-signer is a big deal: the buck stops with them, and then they have to give that buck to the lender, and the whole affair affects their credit, too. Of course, the lender has to believe the co-signer is a good risk/cover for the deal. That's why they might be concerned about not just your credit, and not just your co-signer's credit, but also anyone who they think the co-signer might be tied to (married people are largely on the hook for the credit of their spouse, both ways). But, someone with a good score and a long history and not a lot of outstanding loans or credit will go a long way in co-signing.

So, summary: loans are priced/offered in part by risk/profit, and risk is measured in part by credit score, and credit score is measured in part by:

1) Does this borrower have a history of paying on time and in full? How long is this history?

2) Does this borrower have a job or other means of income? How steady and how much?

3) Does the borrower already have a bunch of other loans or available credit or might they be otherwise stretched? If so, where are we in the line to get paid?

4) If this goes bad, is there someone we can go after or something we can legally(enough) take and sell?

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 02:33

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You are too young to talk like this. There are enough 944s out there that another good one will come along. You could make this one work, sure, but what happens when this one doubles in cost AND you owe money on it?

Soloburrito > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 03:01

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Oh K-Roll you sweet, innocent summer child.

You are young. There will always be a sweet 944 for sale somewhere. They won't all disappear in 5-10 years I guarantee you.

A basic credit card and student loans will get you started when it comes to building credit. Either way, building credit has a lot to do with how long your accounts are open, so you'll have to hurry up and wait either way.

There are a lot of things you can't rush. I want to build an exocet miata but i need a garage with living space first. A house takes more time, money and credit than a car to finance. I understand the desire to do everything now, believe me.

When you start your career and especially if you stay single, you'll have all the cash to make sweet Jalopy purchases.

I hope you can work something out and get your car, but don't stress about it. There will be other opportunities.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 07/01/2014 at 03:18

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what else can I do? I'm sick and tired of waiting again and again and again to find one that actually has options on it I want and in the color I want. Then this one finally shows up and is literally the one that stands out from the rest in every single way. It's not a Craigslist car, nor was it found online, but it's from someone I met and know.

I'm sorry if this sounds stupid, but I cannot wait for things to happen to me when I want them to; I wasted a good part of my life so far waiting for things to come to me and for things I want to happen to me, it never ended well. Now is the opportunity for me to take action and get what I want without hesitation.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Freddy "Tavarish" Hernandez 07/01/2014 at 03:19

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seriously where do you find an $800 944 that isn't a basket case and driveable?? That's impossible.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Soloburrito 07/01/2014 at 03:26

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Not like this one I don't believe and especially for the price.

Why must everything be done by waiting? Why must everything be down the road for me? What of I don't even get that far? It's just not fair.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 08:09

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Okay that's great that you want to do this instead of hem and haw on it but here's my hangup on it - you lack the ability to do it right now. If you're struggling for the entry fee of classic german ownership, how will you afford the rest of it? And unlike a lot of us, you already have a brand new car paid for, correct? As someone who owns and is restoring an old german car I am going to tell you right now that it isn't cheap. You will drop an easy 1500 or more very shortly after getting it as things break. And yes, they will break even if the car looks perfect simply because it's old.

ttyymmnn > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 08:54

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Actually, your problems will just be starting. Now you have to pay off the loan. And if you can't, both you and your dad's credit will get hosed. Not trying to be a wet blanket here, but there's tons of really terrific advice in the thread, one of the best threads I've read here in years. Be patient, Padawan.

JGrabowMSt > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 09:03

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Dont do it. Wait until you can buy the car outright before buying an older one. For 3k, do you expect it to really have less problems than Aarons or Mathias'? Most importantly, if something goes wrong and the car needs major work, you'll be kicking yourself hard over having to pay both a loan and the repairs. Or worse, pay off the loan for a car thats sitting.

Whats wrong with the ST? Not enough to enjoy right now?

At the moment I have no credit. No credit card at all, no credit history. I also have zero debt, no student loans whatsoever. I bought my wagon in full when I could afford it so I didnt have to worry about anything. Its not something everyone can do, but unless a loan is absolutely necessary, I never suggest it.

I know you want a Porsche, but will you be able to give the car the time, as well as schooling? Im all for getting the car, but also making sure the time is right.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > JGrabowMSt 07/01/2014 at 09:10

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For the $3k and how greatly maintained the car has been and how many new wear parts it has, yes I do. If something does go wrong, which I doubt with this one, then at least I have a daily driver to get me to where I need to go and a chance to work on the car and gain some more knowledge on working on cars; which I so desperately desire. I can and will give the car the time it needs and deserves and if not I'll make the time like I do for everything else.

The ST's fine. I feel as though now is that right time.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > ttyymmnn 07/01/2014 at 09:11

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But I can pay off the loan no problem. I got a quote last week and it'd only be about $60 per month. I make that easily in 3 days of work and have plenty to work on the car if I need to.

ttyymmnn > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 09:14

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If you've looked at all the angles, discussed it with your parents, discussed it with the bank, then do what you will. How long will the note be?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > ttyymmnn 07/01/2014 at 09:18

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Note is payment I'm guessing. It would be 60 months/5 years

ttyymmnn > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 09:27

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Length of term, yes. 5 years is a long time for such a small loan. Honest question: will the car still be running in 5 years?

Patrick George > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 09:35

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I'm a huge 944 man myself, but I'm gonna join the chorus of killjoy folks here and tell you that taking out a loan for one is a bad, bad idea. Take it from someone with a little more experience under his belt. This could be a decision you'll regret someday, financially.

I know that 944 is super nice, but they're not that hard to find. If you can afford the loan just work and save up for one instead. You'll get there sooner than you think and it's way better to buy it outright. Consider the money you'll lose on interest that could be spent on parts, maintenance, racing or whatever else you'll wanna do.

Financing makes sense on a newer car you can drive every day. It doesn't on a cheap, not too reliable sports car from the 80s. I think you're gonna get hosed on this one.

Cars come and go, dude. Bad money decisions can haunt you forever.

Andrew P. Collins > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 09:52

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Hey man, don't take this personally because I feel your frustration, but:

As others have said, no bank is going to touch that deal without giving you a horrific interest rate and predatory terms. Take it from me, I used to work for the mafia.

A bank will only lend money on things they'd want (can sell). So they work with items that are easy to valuate and easy to liquidate... i.e. can wholesale auction off if you don't pay. ESPECIALLY a bank that would make a tiny loan to an eighteen year old with no credit, regardless of whether or not your father co-signs.

A bank making a $3,000 loan isn't going to send some classic car specialist to look at a 944 and valuate it, they're just going to look at what they sell for at dealer wholesale auctions, which is probably "squat."

Ok last piece of realtalk; if you don't have the cash to buy the car, how are you planning on paying road taxes/title fees/registration? Monthly insurance (which will be hefty), and they inevitable repairs you're going to need to perform?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > ttyymmnn 07/01/2014 at 10:09

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Yes it will. I'll make sure of that.

ttyymmnn > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 10:14

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How much will it cost to keep it running? Add these costs to your monthly payment. Just trying to make sure you look at all the angles.

SantaRita > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 10:26

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Loans:

on an old car there are no guarantees so banks wont loan against them as collateral. On my first loan i had my dad cosign. Before that he put me as a listed person on a credit card he has so i could build credit (i was about 14 yrs old). These are the easiest ways to establish credit.

Since it's only 3000$ you could just work and save it up. You can average 120$ worth of lawns a day you're there in a month, but i think you'll want year round income. Old porsche's are cheap to buy and less cheap to maintain and fix. Expect to actually put closer to 4500$ into this car, and budget for gas/insurance.

With your dad, he has a limit where he can be lent money and not have the bank think it's too much for his income. Even if that were not the case, here is a thought:

when your mom gets a new car, what will happen to her old car? If you get it, consider drive away and be happy. Whatever it is, it beats walking. And it can likely be sold for 3000$ or more ;)

TimwholivesinTexas > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 10:31

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If you can't afford $3000 for a toy, you shouldn't be financing it. If you were hurting to get a reliable commuter car, I would probably have more sympathy. All I see above is someone complaining because they haven't paid attention to the world around them, despite having unprecedented access to more information than anyone in history.

You need to visit reality for a while, where you read Lifehacker, not just Jalopnik, and learn how to responsibly build credit and use it to your advantage. You say you "rew up not knowing that having established credit is needed to actually get a loan", and that's fine, but now you are a grown-up (I guess?) and you know.

Your credit affects the following:

1) Your car (and other) insurance rates

2) Your mortgage rates

3) Your ability to fly commercial airlines

4) Your ability to bargain on large ticket purchases

5) Your ability to buy certain large ticket items (even if you are paying cash for a house, a builder will typically pre-qualify you for a contingency mortgage, or will otherwise give you disadvantageous terms for paying)

Your credit score is how most companies determine your character and the risk of doing business with you in this day and age. I'm not saying that's how it should be done, I'm saying that's the way it IS done.

Credit is a complicated bitch. Too little will hurt you. Too much will hurt you. Educate yourself about it.

Welcome to being a grown-up.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > ttyymmnn 07/01/2014 at 10:53

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Well seeing as the most important parts are new(clutch, timing belt and water pump ect.) I know it doesn't need a thing right now so for the rest of this year and into next year I'm all set. the T-belt don't have to be changed for another 25,000 miles and I don't intend to drive it more that 5-10k miles a year during the summer.. So it'd be 2 years before it would need serious work, and all the small stuff I could do in my garage.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > SantaRita 07/01/2014 at 10:55

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No, she's selling her POS Windstar towards the new car she wants to get. It's beat to hell and rusted all over; it wouldn't sell for more than $1k if you got a stupid buyer. I'm just looking to get it as a summer car; nothing else.

cobleymj > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 11:03

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please take the first two sentences to the bank with you and show them. its really for your own good

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > cobleymj 07/01/2014 at 11:13

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I just can't win and be happy can I...

atk09 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 12:23

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Take the loan and just make sure you check on the interest rate and various conditions. Plan to pay it off ASAP and you'll be fine. $3k is not a huge sum of money.

SantaRita > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 12:46

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dealer will give you 400$ for it, maybe you convince your parents to give you the difference if you sell it for $1000? just trying to get creative

cobleymj > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 12:56

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You're coming off as a spoilt child

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > cobleymj 07/01/2014 at 13:01

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I'm not trying to and I don't mean to either. If that's the case , well then what am I supposed to do then?? Just push it over the shoulder, move on and be happy with it? Tell me, what am I suppose to do?

cobleymj > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 13:15

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Stop whining about how it isn't 'fair'. You didn't research car buying, you have only yourself to blame for this sudden and completely expected (for everyone else) turn of events.

You say you can 'afford' the car. This means either a) you have the cash in hand or b) you have calculated the cost of a loan given the car you want and your credit history. Neither of which is true. You don't know what you can afford.

You say you have 'waited and waited' for your ideal car to come along. How long? How long have you been earnestly researching the car that you want? I dont mean searching '944' on eBay and craigslist. All this time you haven't considered opening a browser tab to find out how car buying works, what the market for 944's actually is? I was in the same boat as you. I love the 944. There is a constant supply of them on the market. There has been since I turned 18 and that was almost a decade ago. They aren't going anywhere.

My advice - go get a credit card - either one with a tiny credit limit, or a secured credit card - give the bank the downpayment you have saved up to build credit with. In 6 months you will have a credit score, then you can begin to research and discuss with banks the type of car they will finance, and what you can really afford given your salary.

Then chuck the idea of a 944 for a few more years and buy a miata, the obvious conclusion to the research you do into the maintenance costs of buying a porsche

Aaron James > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 15:25

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Have you called any insurance companies to find out how much full coverage insurance on a Porsche is for an unmarried male under 25. You'll likely spend close to or more than the purchase price per year on insurance. If you have a loan on a car you have to have full coverage insurance. Everyone here is telling you this might not be the best time or way to do this, I'd listen. You have your whole life in front of you, there's plenty of time to get things in order like college and one good paying job, then buy a 944 or a 911 even.

Hi there > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 15:49

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5 year loan on an old 944 is a terrible idea.

Hi there > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 15:54

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Kid, this is the way it has been as long as modern banking has existed. Your brain won't even fully mature for some more years and that's why you need a consignor or a credit rating to get a decent loan. It's plenty fair.

Hi there > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 15:58

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You'll become older and wiser if you live long enough and in the process it is likely you will become more patient.

handsoff > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 16:09

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Find a local credit union, inquire about a line of credit. My wife was able to start a $3k one with no credit and proof of income.

Andl > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 21:03

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Go to your local credit union. They will finance one if you have good credit. I bought an 86 RX7 GXL with a loan a few years back as my first car.

Andl > Andl 07/01/2014 at 21:09

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It's not as hard as people are making it sound. If you have proof of income, most places will trust you with $3000. You need to be careful that you don't fuck this up however, or it will take years to repair damage to your credit. Do you have enough savings to pay the bills if you lose you job for a month or two? Can you afford insurance?

theo > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 22:02

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When I got my first loan I was 17 and it was 6500 for my first Charger, unfortunately because I was not 18 I WAS the co-signer for my mom, not vice versa. This way I could make the payments from my account but she actually got the credit. I only recently realized that me doing a stellar job paying it off only helped my moms credit. SO make sure that doesn't happen. Also you may want to consider getting a personal loan instead of a car loan, the interest is higher but you own the title which means you don't need full insurance (I had liability only) and you can also trade the car whenever with no hassle. I think it was worth the extra 4% interest

theo > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/01/2014 at 22:12

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I don't think you should wait, go for it. I sure as hell did and Ive traded my way through cars and haven't paid a dime for a car since my $6500 loan. But my best friend used to own a 944 so here is some advice mechanically. The muffler costs $900. the electricals are a nightmare, and even if you tinker and put work into it chances are they aren't about to skyrocket in price. My friend bought his for 3K and sold it for $250 cause his parents said he couldn't have 2 cars at once and he wanted a 350z. (he saved) What I'm saying is make sure a 944 is the car you want because its not an investment like a muscle car or a 911 or an M car. Its price may stay about the same, maybe not. But you could put $30,000 into one and still just have a $10,000 car. Be warned but go for it and have fun. its only 3K

ninequattroquattro > theo 07/02/2014 at 12:53

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3K... that he does not have?

Matt Warrillow > Andrew P. Collins 07/02/2014 at 13:32

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True that,

I wanted to change my car so went unto the dealer and pretty much said what can you do me for. They specced up a nice car sorted out the trade in raised the request for finance and then a couple of days later it come back a declined due to a low credit score.

So I saved like a mofo for a couple of months and went back to them with a £2k (cash) deposit £1500 trade in and they re-applied for the loan and it was granted no problem, granted the interest rate is a tad high but it is still affordable.

To a finance company a £3500 deposit on a £10,000 car was enough for them to approve my loan as I could prove that I have the cash flow to handle the repayments due to the high deposit amount. Yet they wouldn't approve it with just my trade in and £200 in cash because they saw me as a high risk.

To the OP if the car is only $3k then save like a bitch and buy the car outright if like you say cash isn't a problem. Or if the car is a tad more expensive try and save at least a 25% deposit (Cash) and then that shows the finance company that you have the means to pay back your loan.

shirosake > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/02/2014 at 13:35

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You'd have to take an unsecured personal loan for that - probably a BAD idea...

If you want to build your credit, get a low limit (like $500 bucks) or a co-signed card with a parent and start there. A $3000 personal loan for a car probably isnt the best.

ineedacar > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/02/2014 at 13:36

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I haven't read all the replies below, so hopefully I am not repeating too much of what you've heard. I have been working in banking (specifically in lending) for 7 years. Most banks won't make car loans on cars over 10 years old, and beyond that they usually have a minimum loan amount of $5000. So any loan you find will be expensive from a rate and fee perspective because there won't be 5 lenders competing for business...so be prepared for that.

Secondly: "here I am, confused as to how this is possible, as I was not aware that you're credit score and income and other such things limited you to how many loans you could take out a year of something? Is this true?"

There is a maximum percentage of your income that can be dedicated to repaying debt (loans), so your father's income alone may not be able to qualify him for all those payments. This is less a statement about how much income your father makes, and more a statement about how expensive a payment for a $45k loan will be! Also, if he's like many adults with families, he probably has things like a mortgage, credit cards, cell phone plans etc that are factored into that lending decision by the bank.

If you are looking to build credit, getting a cellphone plan with a company that reports your payments could be a good place to start. A credit card could be a good way too, as long as you know how to use it. An earlier commenter mentioned paying things on time. This is exactly right. Pay the bills on time...every time. Pay more than the minimum. Pay it off early even. This will help you establish GOOD credit, not just some credit. I could geek out on this shit all day...so I'll wrap it up.

Final Thought: If you are looking to establish credit, a car loan can be a good way to do it, but don't be surprised if nobody gives you a loan for this particular car. It's not you...it's them. Well, and the car. I would love a 944 myself, but would not lend anyone else money to buy it.

I wish you luck. Hopefully you can find something that will work, or find another car that will also be fun to drive that you can pay for with cash, or that is a little newer that you could get better terms on a loan for.

shirosake > Hi there 07/02/2014 at 13:36

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Especially for $3000...

offyatindy > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/02/2014 at 14:21

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If you think roping some unsuspecting relative into co-signing is a good strategy, well think on this. What if you can't pay back the loan? Then, the loan not only ruins your credit, but your relative's. Or they are left holding the bag. And you are well on your way to being "that relative."A deadbeat. And if you are a deadbeat once, you are a deadbeat again.

I run a small business and know a bunch of people who drive expensive cars they can't afford. (Almost exclusively Escalades and BMWs it seems). How do I know they can't afford them? Their credit cards usually don't work. When I see them coming, they are "that guy or gal." Thankfully none are relatives.

If it is that important to you to drive a 944, or whatever captures your fancy today, then go ahead. Borrow from a relative. Run up a credit card. Take a loan you can't pay back. Enjoy the moment. Repeat. Go through life that way, until finally, you can't. From what I have seen, you can keep the cycle going for quite a while. Not sure what happens when the cycle runs out. But everyone in the community knows who they are. Maybe it doesn't bother them.

Better strategy: save the 3 grand and buy the car with cash.

Best strategy: Concentrate on building a career or a business that will allow you to afford your Porsche, Jaguar, Ferrari...enthusiast vehicle of choice at most any time. (You can probably save the 3 grand and get a 944 while concentrating on the big picture too!)

Roadster Man > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/02/2014 at 16:26

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I accept your apology because it does sound stupid. One of the MOST FOOLISH things to do is make a purchase with your emotions. You might have been waiting a while and you might have done your research, but you are buying with your emotions and not with your head.

Don't do it.

Don't make purchasing a car you're infatuated with into a statement to the cosmos that you're "ready to take action and get what you want without hesitation." I'm going to be harsh to get my point across... Think of how stupid this sounds coming from a prospective car purchaser who needs to take out a loan to buy a car: "I don't really care about the debt that I'm going into as a young adult, the maintenance bills that I won't be able afford when something goes wrong, the unreliability of a Porsche with 100K+ miles, I just want to take action and get what I want without hesitation."

(and deal with the consequences later)

Do what everyone else says. Stay away until you can afford it.

What else can you do? You life will be full of being sick and tired of waiting. That's just the way it is. You can let it control you, or you can BE PATIENT. I dunno why you feel like you need a 944, but if you really need it, save up for the purchase price and have a fund on the side for repairs. Make a wise choice and SAVE.

However, if you must, must, MUST take a loan out to buy a car, for your own sake buy something dependable so you don't end up making payments on something that's stuck in your driveway. You can get a beater miata or e30 and both cars will grow with you as you learn to drive a RWD car.

I'm going to ramble even more now: I bought a 04 WRX wagon back in November and when it was stolen in April, it was a blessing in disguise. I test drove the rexaround the block, fell in love, and bought it two days later without driving or even looking at another car. The seller was a mechanic and had rebuilt the engine himself. I trusted him and I didn't get it inspected. I didn't even drive the thing on the highway.

Well, the car had 2 leaky valve cover gaskets and 4 leaky cam seals and started shooting smoke out from under the hood the first day I drove it. I took care of everything and I thought I was OK. Then a plug for an oil channel came loose from the head that was (supposedly) reworked and the car started pissing oil everywhere. I'm lucky the engine didn't run dry and explode. Once all the leaks were sealed up and the plug was put back in and loctited, I kept driving the car. Soon I realized that the car was burning a quart of oil every thousand miles. The guy who sold it to me either didn't even rebuild the engine, or did a terrible job rebuilding it. I decided that I was finished with the car and wanted to sell it, and one day I woke up and it was gone. Now that piece of shit is someone else's headache. Don't do what I did. Don't buy with your emotions. I know it's tough, but you've got to take a step back and look at the big picture here.

offyatindy > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/02/2014 at 16:27

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Here is some financial information. (I expressed my opinion on your quest above.)

Rule of 72. Divide 72 by the interest rate and the answer is how many years it takes your money to double, given compounded interest. It's usually used by investors...

For example if you invest $1000 at 9 percent interest, in 8 years, you will have $2,000.

You can also use it backwards to figure, quick and dirty, how much your loan will cost.

So, figure you have a five year loan at 14.4% interest (72/14.4=5), you will wind up paying $6,000 for your $3,000 car.

For a 60 month loan, that is, of course, $100 per month.

thebigbossyboss > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/02/2014 at 16:56

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"It's not fair". Welcome to LIFE son. You're 18. You gotta a way better car than me! Being a poor car enthusiast sucks? No it doesn't. I do car shit all the time. Hang ou at the race track, either free or like $20 bucks. Went go karting, that was $40 bucks, went and watched a local rally....free except gas. Wrenched on my own car....great fun and practical besides. If you're 18 and complaining about waiting, ....I don't know what to say. Life isn't full of instant gratitude.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > thebigbossyboss 07/02/2014 at 18:14

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That's the problem. I can't wrench on a car. I can't wrench on my car not do I have a reason to because it's new and nothing's broken. I wanted a second car to be able to do that.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Roadster Man 07/02/2014 at 18:21

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Great. So I won't get it then and have nothing else to do. Fun. So what the hell is an actual fun RWD car that isn't "expensive" no matter how many new parts are in or how perfectly garage kept and maintained it is, that isn't a Oppo-typical stupid Miata or slow E30?

Roadster Man > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/02/2014 at 23:52

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And therein lies the rub: You've already made up your mind. You are saying that no Porsche 944 = nothing else to do and no fun. Think about that for a while. You'll realize that equation makes zero sense and you are being irrational. You're fixated, even infatuated with the 944. You'll get one some day, just not yet. Consider your next car training, because you'll probably wrap it around a tree and be thankful it wasn't a 944.

Re: an actual fun RWD car that isn't "expensive no matter how many new parts are in or how perfectly garage kept and maintained it is, that isn't a Oppo-typical stupid Miata or slow E30"

Off the top of my head: AW11 MR2, SW20 MR2, Toyota Starlet, Toyota Cressida, Nissan 240SX, FC RX7 (although it gets bad gas mileage), Mistubishi 3000GT (get a non-turbo to avoid the repair bills and turbo it in the future), Nissan 280ZX, Z30 Lexus SC300 (2JZ baby! Room for improvement!), AE86 SR5 (4AGE and LSD swap in the future)

All of those cars can be found in the $3000 range if you wait long enough and look hard enough. But as far as widely available cars, there aren't any. That's why the answer is "stupid Miata or slow E30. "

Re: "stupid Miata"

Have you even driven one hard ? Because if you haven't you have no right to say that, unless you're referring to the stupid grin on your face after a killer canyon run. I daily drive a Miata and it's the most fun thing in the world. It might be Japanese, but it's the last car to carry on the European roadster spirit. You've got a short wheelbase 2300lb car with 50/50 weight distribution, enough power to have fun, an engine that doesn't care when it's revved to hell and back, 5 speeds, and a torsen LSD (if you find the right one). Oh and it's Japanese so the top doesn't leak. If you think you can't drive a car because other people think it's feminine, silly, stupid, etc. then you have a serious self-confidence issue. I've been told I look like a clown getting out of my car (I'm 6'1" 210lbs), I've been asked if my car came with a weed whacker attachment, all sorts of crap. But I shrug it off because I have a fucking blast driving my car. And every girl who ever comments on it says it's cute.

But more than any image issues you may have, this car teaches you how to drive. With the short wheelbase, snap oversteer is a very real thing, and you can get into trouble if you don't stay on top of the car at the limit. But you learn to get that dab of oppo on the corner exit and you can scare the shit out of your friends! After only one ride I have several friends who said "I need to get one of these." On top of it all, a miata will grow with you as you get better at driving.

Re: "slow E30"

You're buying a $3000 car. EVERTHING is going to be slow. Give me a break.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Roadster Man 07/03/2014 at 00:15

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I'm saying that no 944 would leave me rather sad but I'd still want something to have.

I say no to the Miata because I just dislike how Oppo treats it like God's gift to the car world. It's like a movie that's overhyped. Maybe it is good but the hype it gets and the constant praise just turns me away for some reason. I don't think it looks feminine, but it does look boring. But I don't know, I've never driven in one.

As for the E30, I'll give you that one, because most $3k cars are slow. What about a Mustang? Or a Fiero? Or a Firebird/Trans-Am? Something a little more American? If I can't afford any of my German favorites, I'd at least like to try out some V8s.

Roadster Man > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/03/2014 at 00:56

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MAYBE it's good? I'm telling you, drive one. You can't just dismiss a a car you haven't driven that is known for its driving experience. You need to at least drive one, then you'll know if it isn't your thing.

But if the reason it turns you away is because those stupid conformists at Oppo all like Miatas... You need a better reason than being a contrarian. It's also overhyped at autocross competitions, and that's because they are fast. What's wrong with that?

Miatas are not like a movie that's overhyped. That's a poor comparison. Movies are something you watch and watch and the same thing happens over and over again. Cars give you endless creativity and so many different experiences depending on where you go, how you drive, and what you drive. The Miata has so much hype because it gives you a damn good experience for the money (mine was $3500). It's a go kart that you drive on the road. The steering is super responsive and has great feel. You are sitting next to the tranny, so the shifter goes straight into the gearbox- no linkage so the shifting feel is super sweet and has a super short throw. The rear axle practically sits under your butt so you can always sense where the rear is going when you are going sideways (if you get one with an LSD). Did I already say that you can beat the engine like there's no tomorrow? It needs reiterating. NA or NB generation, it's a nice machine and is greater than the sum of its parts.

I threw out Japanese cars because used oem and aftermarket parts will likely be available for relatively cheap, and I like Japanese cars. The only RWD Euro option you really have is an E30 when you take into account the price of replacement parts. As far as American cars go, I don't know anything. If it's a second car and you don't need to worry about gas, a V8 would be sweet. In a Miata.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Roadster Man 07/03/2014 at 01:03

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I just don't like following the bandwagon, or what everyone else has is all.

NA and NB?? what a weird term for each generation...I mean If I could have any Japanese car right now, it'd be 240z. I love that Inline-6 sound.

Roadster Man > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/03/2014 at 01:27

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Yeah, Miatas are named NA, NB, NC, and NC2 (I think). RX-7's are commonly called FB, FC, and FD so it's not too weird.

It might be the bandwagon out here in weird Oppo internet land, but look around your town- unless it's SoCal or Florida, there probably aren't many Miatas around. It's not like you're joining the sheeple and getting a Corolla! Either way, I don't get the "going against the bandwagon" thing. Ever hear the saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it?" Well the Miata ain't broke and that's why it's been making people smile since '89.

You've got good taste with the 240Z with that beautiful straight six.. the SC300 has a 2JZ btw... For me, the 240Z, R31 Skyline GTS-T, and AE86 Corolla GTS are at the stop of my list for somewhat attainable Japanese cars. In fantasy land, it's a TT Supra or R33 GT-R.

Keep in mind this is not the last car you'll ever own. So whatever your choice is, don't shoot for the moon. Consider it a stop-gap car until you can get something better. And a training car for learning how to drive a RWD car aggressively. You'll make mistakes. I fully anticipate crashing my Miata on the track at some point, which is why I didn't pay a penalty to cash out some of the retirement fund from my old job to buy an S2000 instead...

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Roadster Man 07/03/2014 at 01:43

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I'll admit, the newest Miata actually made me stop and look for a good couple minutes at the auto show this year. Also this year was the first time I'd actually seen multiple Miatas because the more I learned about cars, the more I could pick them out from crowds and such.

You've excellent points to refute mine, damn good ones. Trust me, I have many mistakes left to make, I already made two serious mistakes driving a FWD; one where snow and ice meets understeer, and the other where understeer and torque steer come together around a corner; only one of them led to some damage:

I don't know much of anything about Japanese cars, my dad doesn't like them one bit and he doesn't think they're as reliable as they're reported to be; I kinda get that from him, but I'm willing to change my mind or at least get some more info in regards to this. What more can you say about the cars you[ve listed?

Who? What? Where? > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/03/2014 at 13:56

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So I'm probably going to come off like a jerk, but I'm going to say the first thing that comes to mind anyway. I've read through most of the replies here, and you are sounding like a spoiled brat. You have to have THIS car RIGHT NOW and many attempts to provide advice seem to be met with more whining about how you simply can't wait any longer.

Kid, you're young. I know it seems like you've waited a while for something, but you need to grow up a bit and realize that in the grand scheme of things you haven't really waited that long. I'm 33 and I've been waiting 20 years and counting to purchase my dream car.

That said, here's a few concise points:
1) Read up on credit online and how it works. There are a lot of factors that figure into how credit is calculated including the amount of debt you currently already have.
2) Best way to build up credit yourself immediately is to get a low limit credit card. Use it and pay it off every month. Don't keep a balance on it because your interest rate is going to be terrible.
3) No bank will give you a $3000 auto loan. No bank will give you an auto loan on a 20 year old car. Any loans that you could get, even with a co-signer, will be unsecured loans with predatory interest rates. On the plus side, you'll be building credit. But you'll pay about twice what the car is selling for while doing so.
4) On the bright side, since it will probably be a personal loan you probably won't need to get full coverage on your car - something that's required by the bank for an auto loan.
5) You say that you can easily pay off a $3000 loan with payments of $60/month. You're being pretty optimistic about your interest rate. Figure on close to 20% interest. That comes out to about $80/month. And a total of almost $1800 interest paid on top of your $3000 car.
6) You also said that you can easily earn $60 in about 3 days of working. $60 / 3 days = $20 per day. $3000 / $20 = 150 days. A 944 makes for a great Christmas present to yourself.
7) A Miata will be cheaper in the long run. I've driven a few and they are a blast. I don't personally own one since I've got other toys, but I might be buying one as a track toy next spring after I move.

In short. If you've really waited this long, you can wait another 5 months. And if it's a friend maybe you can negotiate putting down a deposit with a promise to buy in a few months.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Who? What? Where? 07/03/2014 at 14:12

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Thanks for the advice.

Roadster Man > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/03/2014 at 15:51

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I've made some youthful indiscretions driving as well- at least you're mature enough to admit it. You daily drive a Saturn Aura? My mom drives one and it's never given us a single problem. Except one of the doors stopped working altogether- locked or unlocked, you can't open or close it anymore. At least it wasn't the driver's door. I've made a few roadtrips in it and the interior is surprisingly nice for such a crappy era of GM cars.

I'm at glad that you're opening your mind a bit at least. No matter what decision you make, everyone here at Oppo just wants you to explore your options. Don't fall in love and get an irrational car. Save that for your adult life when it's not as painful to spend money.

As far as Japanese cars being unreliable, I dunno where your dad got that. I've driven a first-gen Acura Integra and my current NA miata, and both of them have been super dependable. The muffler fell off the integra while I was driving on the highway, and a dead battery in the Miata left me stranded when I left my parking lights on when I parked and went out to lunch (literally and figuratively). A friend's 90's Camry is about to hit 200K. Another friend's 90's Accord is at 160K and still kicking. ANOTHER friend of mine had 150K on his Civic before he crashed it. And then there's my friend's E36 M3. It just hit 215K, and it just needed a new starter motor and radiator fan.

Unless they are English or Italian, pretty much all cars can be dependable as long as you keep on top of things and they have proper maintenance history. The difference in upkeep between the Japanese cars and the Euro cars is just how much that maintenance costs. Odds are, the parts you'll end up needing to replace will be cheaper if you buy Japanese.

I leave American cars out of the discussion because I don't know jack and I don't think you'll want to drive a boat. Yeah, tire smoke is cool but it gets old quick in my opinion.

As for the cars I've listed, I don't know about any maintenance issues because I haven't owned any of them.

-AW11 MR2 has a bulletproof 4-AGE engine of Hachiroku/Initial D fame, but in a mid-engine set up.

-SW20 MR2, is known to have a dependable but slow engine in the non-turbo trim, and a pretty quick and dependable engine in turbo trim

-Toyota Starlet & Toyota Cressida are older cars, but you can still find them for relatively cheap if you look hard enough. The Cressida, with its long wheelbase, is quickly becoming a drift darling so they are getting a bit tough to find. The Starlet is a RWD hatch that is tough to find- if you find one for sale, it'll either already be stripped for race duty or it'll be someone who has no idea what they have. Check japanesenostalgiaccar.com and you can probably find a couple Starlet and Cressida build threads that can shed some light on common issues.

-Nissan 240SX is the typical beginner drift car, but for a reason. People talk crap about the KA engine that came in the US-spec versions, but it can take a beating. It'll be near impossible to find a clean one, but if you're ok snapping up someone else's abandoned drifter project, you can turn it into a clean driver. I loved riding in my friend's old 240. Great weight distribution, great handling, decently quick, it checks all the boxes. Easy to do an SR20 swap and enough room for a 2JZ or RB engine if you win the lottery.

-FC RX7: I don't know anything about these except that the rotary engine gets 12mpg. But if you were considering a V8, maybe it's a possibility. the 9000RPM redline beckons.

-Mistubishi 3000GT: I don't know anything about these, and I've heard some maintenance nightmares about the VR4 twin turbo cars, but the non-turbo ones don't seem to have many issues. I think they're a bit bloated, but I also think that about a Fiat 500.

Z30 Lexus SC300: It's got a 2JZ! It has 10 more horsepower than the first MK-IV Supra! These are quickly becoming cannibalized for their 2JZ engines, but lots of owners are older folks who bought Lexus's Mercedes SL-fighter back in the 90's and they don't know what they are sitting on. I don't know much about reliability, but I do know that you can make 1000+HP with that engine block.

AE86 SR5: You can't afford the holy grail Hachiroku, the Corolla GT-S with the 4AGE. You'll be stuck with a lesser engine and an open differential, but you'll still have the perfect 50/50 weight distribution and a 2,035lb curb weight.

Nissan 280ZX: I don't know shit. They were the end of the era of the classic Z-cars, and I think they might have gotten infected by some 80's shittyness. I dunno for sure.

Look at all your options! That's all I'm saying. That, and you don't need a 944. It might be more trouble than it's worth at this point in time.

Who? What? Where? > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/03/2014 at 18:53

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Not a problem I should also add that I am jealous. I would love a clean 944 like that. :)

Lokki > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 07/06/2014 at 22:41

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I am way late to this discussion, but still want to toss in a couple of cents worth, if I may. Are you thinking that this 20 year old car is going to be your daily driver? What are you budgeting for maintenance? I'm in my mid 50's and my wife and I are early retired. Her car is a 1998 328i that we bought new for her in 1998 for her short commute to work. That car now has 67,000 miles on it (you can do the math), and it's had covered parking day and night since new. I call it the Immaculata, and I've given it every single scheduled service including oil changes since new. However, this car, so lightly used, and so well cared for costs me roughly $1200 a year in repairs and maintenance. There is always something which needs to be done - belts, hoses, tires, and repairs - the plastic top to the radiator cracked; the fan controller broke and stuck in the on position (to replace it you have to pull the front bumper, etc; the hood and trunk shocks wore out; the real struts and shocks wore out (yeah, even with the low miles). I don't have to pay Porsche parts prices, nor deal with Porsche complexity, as an E36 is fairly straight forward. You will pay more - simple as that.

Have you priced insurance for it? You probably won't have to get full coverage since you won't be able to get a loan on the car itself (since the car isn't usable as a guarantee by the bank or credit union, you will have to get an 'unsecured loan'. However, you are 20 years old and driving a sports car. This website says on average a male of your age will pay $2500 per year.

Finally, lets assume that you can get a credit union to give you a loan with no credit history. I don't really believe that you will be able to get one, as you probably have not been on your current job(s?) for more than a year or so. With little employment history, loan officers and their risk software generally don't like assuming that you will still be employed at those jobs for the three years the loan would probably run. However, This Reuters article says that

" Larger banks like Citibank and TD Bank have always offered personal loans, but they tend to have higher rates. For example, the average unsecured loan from credit unions is about $2,600, at an average four-year interest rate of about 10 percent"

So, let's look at your expenses for the next three years:

Using this loan calculator a $3500(don't forget taxes and registration) loan for 36 months at 10% will cost you about $113 per month. Your insurance will cost roughly $208 per month. Although you can't predict repairs, you should accrue savings against the surety that your car will need repairs. Let's say $1200 per year and thus $100 per month. Now lets assume that since the car is a daily driver you will drive 12,000 miles per year getting an average of 20 mpg in your 944. Assuming that you use premium (we'll call it $4 per gallon and figure that includes your oil changes) 12000 miles /20 mpg * $4 gal / 12 months =$200 per month for gas.

So: loan $113 per month

Insurance $208 per month

Gas $200 per month

Forecast repairs and maintenance $100 (average - although you will have many months with no expenses, a couple of sustantial repairs/ a brake job / one set of tires etc will easily use up your $1200 annual budget

Your cost to own a 944 will be roughly $621 per month. In any given month you may get away for $521 for your fixed costs, but that repair and maintenance budget cost WILL appear annually.

Can you be sure of $621 a month for the next 36 months?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Lokki 07/06/2014 at 22:59

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Thank you for the info. I guess what I never said in the post was that the 944 would be my summer car only as I've got a daily already. I started my second job a month ago, and have been at my other job more than two years now. I only want the car to be insured from April/May to October/November. The 944 is fine with 87 octane(regular) which is about $3.80. And I'd probably drive maybe 5000-7000 in the summer from work/school/road trip(s).

Also, having put $300 on the car already, I owe $2900 on it currently. So I figured a $3000 loan(unsecured or signature if I can) for 10% for 48 months would be sufficient. And I've got a clean record with no accidents. If that doesn't work, I'd have my dad co-sign the loan.

blacktruck18 > Jacques L' Autre 07/07/2014 at 01:50

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Actually, most credit unions will loan money for older cars with not a lot down.

Jacques L' Autre > blacktruck18 07/07/2014 at 10:12

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Not cars that are that old. There are usually age limits, and mileage restrictions in place. If it meets those restrictions then, yes, they will loan you the money, usually at a favorable interest rate compared to bigger banks.

theo > ninequattroquattro 07/23/2014 at 22:58

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3K in debt will be good practice for if he ever wants to go to college lol

ninequattroquattro > theo 07/25/2014 at 17:09

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touché